Limbo dancing

[undyingking]

I'm sure that like me you were all excited to learn that the new Pope is considering abolishing Limbo.

I find this a bit of a puzzle. When Limbo first entered church doctrine in the Middle Ages, it was put across as "at last we've worked out what's happened to the souls of virtuous pagans, unbaptized babies and so on". So how can you just abolish it? Where are they now going to say those souls are? Or can they possibly admit that the whole thing's a bit of an absurd intellectual exercise best forgotten about? And if so, what about transubstantiation, the immaculate conception, the trinity and all the other intellectual exercises, enforced compliance with which has caused so much death, suffering etc?

Comments

[adamsmithjr.livejournal.com]

You've presumably seen the 'Father Ted' episode with the three bishops and Father Dougal's doubts... "I mean, it used to be a sin to eat meat on Friday and now it's not. So what about those people who ate meat on Friday and went to hell. They'd be feeling a bit annoyed now, wouldn't they?"

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Yes, that was actually going through my mind as I was writing! The Wit and Wisdom of Father Dougal, what a fine book that'd make.

[fractalgeek.livejournal.com]

But that, I understand, is exactly the point of ultra-orthodox Jewish law observation. The observation of the letter of the law is in its own right obedience to faith, therefore it doesn't matter what they are. Father Dougal is only funny if you actually believe that the laws have to be intrinsicly just and not arbitrary.

PS: I read limbo dancing too

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

that, I understand, is exactly the point of ultra-orthodox Jewish law observation

Ah, I didn't know that, interesting! In that case I guess you could hypothesize that the notions of "justice" expressed in Christianity are maybe purely a result of the infusion of Classical Greek philosophy.

[jackfirecat.livejournal.com]

Indded, good point! I too am informed by that comment, but don't lump all jewish tradition into 'ultra-orthodox'. Rabbinical scholars are as interprative as jesuits (and sufis?).

The Catholic church is a strange one, isn't it? Encyclicals have embraced evolution and non-literal reading of the Bible, unlike the happy-clappy hair-shirts across the Atlantic; the modern-day Catholic church would not show the instuments of torture to Galileo or burn Bruno,and I don't think anyone suffered for plate tectonics, but they are still a bit slow.. on condoms, for instance. (and transubstantiation, as you say, but that's less of a life-and-death issue these days.)

What is all this heaven and hell stuff anyway? Surely everyone's dead until the day of judgement? Says the atheist.

Surely everyone's dead until the day of judgement?

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

There is some ambiguity about that, in that according to one of the Evangelists (Luke, I think) Jesus said to the "good" thief on the cross that they would be together in Paradise "today", which was rather hopefully siezed upon -- it was also thought convenient to assume that the saints etc went to Heaven as soon as they died, otherwise there wouldn't be much point praying to them / asking for their intercession with the Divine.

Mm, there's always a suspicion that the resistance to condoms and abortion is more to do with demographic wishfullness than doctrine.

[fractalgeek.livejournal.com]

Did I imply "all Jewish tradition"? I had in mind a documentary I saw, including (and please excuse me if I get the exact membership wrong) a Rabbi who was certifying Kosher, who I think was both Lubavitch and Beth Din.

He went into great length about how following the letter of the law to the fullest extent possible was an observation in its own right, within tradition and scripture, and that the reason for a law was therefore irrelevant. You can be fairly sure he didn't approve of Reform...

following the letter of the law to the fullest extent possible was an observation in its own right

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Mm, I can see where he's coming from with that, but it still seems a bit distasteful from a decadent post-Enlightenment perspective!