I solemnly swear...

[undyingking]

I'm trying to do something to sort out my swearing. Not whether I do too much of it or not -- that's a subject for another day, and for the disapproving parents of any children who might be listening. But I'm concerned that most of my swearing doesn't really make sense. Can you help? Things I feel I should exclude:

• Parts of the body -- what's insulting about calling someone after a part of the body? We've all got one (or, more often, about half of us have got one). Some of the parts commonly so used are actually among my favourites, and even the others are very usefully functional. So I think to implicitly malign them in such comparisons is nonsensical. Likewise normal bodily functions and waste products.


• Sexual practices -- whether or not I indulge in, or even approve of them, myself, I don't think it makes sense to impute specific sexual practices to the insultee. Outside the world of swearing I wouldn't dream of judging someone on the basis of their sexual preferences, so how can it work as an insult?


• Suggesting their parents weren't married -- really now, we're living in the 21st century guys. This is true of half the kids I know, and nothing wrong with that.


• Blasphemy -- generating invective via terms associated with religious belief makes no sense if you're a believer yourself, and even less if you're not.


• Euphemisms associated with any of the above -- should also be excluded, for the obvious reason.

That doesn't seem to leave much! Any ideas?

[Poll #1359991]

Comments

[vicarage.livejournal.com]

Some words have more power than other, mainly because of their heritage rather than their meaning. Invoking those words invokes this power. Its best to avoid using those words in casual conversation so their power still has meaning to you when you do use them.

If you have words that have similar resonances to you, switch to them, but its no good saying "George Bush!!" when you smack your thumb if you also refer to him in casual conversation or talk to T about bushes in the garden

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Mm, good arguments. If it's just for my personal benefit, I guess I can make up arbitrary words for the purpose, and the more assiduosuly I stick to them the more power they'll accumulate.

But less useful for insulting other people directly, I guess. Even "You George Bush, you!" might not always be taken the right way.

[gbsteve.livejournal.com]

Narwhals! You clock-ducking melon-farmer!

You could try for near word replacement. It's funny, but it's not really swearing.

You could try swearing in French. 'Putain de bordel de merde' has a certain ring about it without being particularly comprehensible to most, or you could go the Captain Haddock route and use angry sounding words, "Iconclast! Bashibazouk!"

I'd just stick with swearing. It works, bitches.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

The Haddock gambit is certainly appealing, but I suspect will take quite a bit of private practice first so as not to mangle the terms at a time of stress.

[celestialweasel.livejournal.com]

But what is left? (I expect that will be a later post?!)

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

It'll be a very thin one, unless you guys have some useful suggestions.

I think you left some off the proscription list

[cleanskies.livejournal.com]

Like, everything involved in dirt filth and the fecal zone -- not just some shitting crapping piss-fiddling slimemould wormy lice-ridden piddling mealy-mouthed scab omission there, but a major zone of filth dirt scum talk, you poxy two-headed son of a bitch*!

Dog, the point of the swear is it's what the mind first reaches for to express discontent. It's going to be something you think about a lot, so good luck with banning sex. You can probably get rid of god, he only comes to me as an expression of mild irritation at something going wrong in an absolutely typical way nowadays.

*I think that plenty of pirate talk may still be open for business also.

Re: I think you left some off the proscription list

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

"Pox" is an interesting point. You can get rid of normal, healthy bodily functions, and still have the whole area of bodily malfunction and disease, without being body-negative.

You syphilitic snotrag, you. (Not actually you. Or you)

Re: I think you left some off the proscription list

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

There may be some fruit there, although I think a lot of them come under the "normal bodily functions and waste products" proscription.

Oh, and I should have excluded animals too. What's insulting about nice cuddly animals? Nothing. Even slimemoulds.

And genetic defects such as two-headedness. Such a condition should inspire sympathy and understanding, not rudery.

Although people do think about sex a lot, hopefully they do so in a generally positive way? So I'm not sure that really is the inspiration channel... "You [put down that Nespresso and take me, George Clooney]!" doesn't ring true to me.

[ar-gemlad.livejournal.com]

The thing about swear words is that they get removed from the original meaning of the word. Also, the supposed severity of swearwords changes with fashions. It annoys me that c*nt seems to be the biggest baddest swear word at the moment, and yet twat is kind of gentle. The argument about c*nt seems to be "you can't use lady bits as an insult! Won't somebody think of the feminists!" But twat means the same thing. And calling someone a dick or a knob isn't seen as some outrageously un-PC thing to do.

Anyway - enough of my ranty ramblings and back to your post.
Swearing serves a purpose - it expels frustration and anger, and hopefully thus diffuses it. (However, swearing at someone may diffuse your anger, but provoke theirs). A lot of words are inappropriate for such use, like poot and fiddlesticks. They just don't carry enough vitriol. Crapsticks is so much better than fiddlesticks. It seems more explosive. I don't know if that's because of the syllables or because crap is a swearword (albeit currently minor). I think you should experiment with different explosive syllables. Without knowing your favourite/most used swearwords, it's difficult to think of alternatives.

[bateleur.livejournal.com]

Thanks, just saved me some typing!

Swearing is just noise. Thinking too much about what the words might mean is missing the point.

[triskellian]

I am intermittently, and with varying commitment, trying to do the same kind of thing, although my list of deprecated categories isn't as long as yours: blasphemy, bodily waste and common-or-garden fucking are currently still permitted searching grounds for swearwords chez triskellian. But then, most of my swearing is emphasis or exclamation rather than insult.

I like Battlestar Galactica's "frak", and other things like "melon farmer" which look a bit like ordinary swearwords, but the link back to the original is still too strong for me to be entirely happy with them.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Mm, they fall into the category of 'replacement swearing' which I shall post about shortly.

[cardinalsin.livejournal.com]

Swear-words don't really relate to their original meaning, for the most part. It's reasonable to be worried about swear-words which seem to vilify a particular group, especially if their emergence as a swear-word is quite recent. But swear-words like "fuck" are so ingrained that they can be treated as a separate word from the verb they derive from. You can partly see this, for example, in the use of "bollocks". In general "bollocks" is used on its own to express disbelief or a feeling of demoralisation, to express the belief that something someone has said is nonsense, or to convey disrespect to an individual or group. But occasionally it will be embellished, for example "big, sweaty bollocks". It seems to me that this embellishment is actually rather incongruous, and I suspect the reason is that "bollocks" used as a swear-word is no longer thought of as a noun at all - hence the incongruousness of using adjectives with it.

As an idea for an alternative swear-word, I rather like "pixellated", which I suspect comes from the work of angry_marmot. Also "bleeding nora", which even from the point of view of someone called Nora, would seem an effective swear-word. Finally, I am rather fond of "blimey".

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Pixellated to me is a euphemism for drunkenness. But maybe that's dreadfully old-school now.

What you say of bollocks is true, but to me that seems all the more reason for eschewing it, if it's in danger of sucking the life out of the actual physical term.

[e-pepys.livejournal.com]

I like "tanj", "there ain't no justice", from Larry Niven's Known Space stories. That at least expresses the sentiment of many swears. At one point I did try to train myself to use that, since I had similar misgivings to you about God and sex (I don't tend to use body parts, don't know why). It didn't work, perhaps because of the soft final syllable, but more likely because it's difficult to train yourself to do something different at unexpected moments of high emotion. Also I don't swear all that often, so it didn't give me much option to practice!

You could show your SF leanings by using "frack", though that's really just a synonym for "fuck".

[cardinalsin.livejournal.com]

I always felt that "tanj" lacked the punch of a nice anglo-saxon swear-word. Conversely "frack" doesn't really mean anything but *sounds* like a good swear-word should.

[mr-malk.livejournal.com]

I do see your point (Oo-er missus, more tea vicar? Etc...), but I don't entirely agree that the categories you use are invalid...
Body parts and excretions. The usefulness of such a body part is not really the issue is it? However functional, pleasurable or indispensable you consider a penis to be, to call someone a prick is to imply that they can be summed up by the attributes of that organ, which most people would consider insulting. Likewise, the direct association with shit as a smelly, unhygienic waste-product is quite insulting in its own right, whether you are using it as a stand-alone exclamation, or to say someone is one or is full of it. I don't see your problem there.

Sexual practises. OK, the use of "fucking" (and similar) for such a broad variety of uses is simply unimaginative, and often does not make any sense whatsoever, so I'm with you on that one. The phonetic constructing of the word "fuck", with a fricative, followed by a short vowel, ending in a velar plosive does make for a good exclamation though. On the other hand, although many people may be part-time onanists, being described as a wanker again implies that this sums them up completely. Whether someone is insulted by it (or anything else) is a matter for them, and only partly dependent on the intention of the speaker. "You jammy fucker!" said by a friend that you have just beat at pool is less likely to be taken as offensive than "You fucker!!!" shouted a passing motorist who has just carved you up.

Illegitimacy. Yes. Odd one that. Using it as an insult pretty much says that you consider it a shameful thing, and might thereby cause more offence to someone of whom it is literally true. Of course there is also the linguistic connection with "base" (extrapolated and railed against by Edmund the Bastard in King Lear, which also makes the point that the parents of illegitimate offspring might well have had more fun in the creative process than a couple who have been married for a long time). If you are conscious of not wanting to imply that being born out of wedlock is a bad thing, probably best not to use it. Personally, I will continue, as I would mourn the loss of the verb "to bastardise" if I dropped it.

Blasphemy. This originated with swearing by something you hold sacred, doesn't it? These days, it's just using "God" or "Jesus" (or something) as a substitute for an exclamation. I try and avoid it I must admit, but then I am a God-botherer. I still like the archaic constructions that were used to avoid taking the name of the Lord in vain.

Anyway, going back to the general point, I think that the greatest problem is lack of originality or imagination. If I really want to insult someone, I don't usually swear at all (unless I know that swearing really offends them), but will try to think of the most insulting or sometimes dismissive description of them that I can, preferably without using anything that would allow my invective to be dismissed as mere prejudice.

Since you asked.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

to imply that they can be summed up by the attributes of that organ, which most people would consider insulting

That would certainly be important if I'm considering primarily the effect on the insultee. But my point is that it's intellectually dissatisfying to just partake in this as a convention, when I don't myself feel that there's anything "really" insulting about such a comparison.

[hatmandu.livejournal.com]

I "admire your stance", but don't think realistically I'd have the discipline to pursue it - and part of the whole point about swearing, me old cuntflaps, is that it's inherently undisciplined. I don't want to dwell on the dark psychological underbelly of using sexual/marital/bodily words etc etc: while society probably ought to be ashamed itself for some of its hangups with those, they also give swearing its potency, even now, and the main thing about is to, well, let rip, I think. That wasn't a fart gag.

All that said, given that my small baby will inevitably become a small child in the gathering future, I'm going to have erode my happy habit of swearing somehow, somesoonish...

[mr-malk.livejournal.com]

Hee hee! A friend of mine decided to trim his swearing due to the impending birth of his firstborn, and decided to use the word "lack-wit" instead of his usual choice of "fuck-wit". On his first day at this, he ended up cursing a driver who had made him swerve, shouting "You fucking lack-wit!". It took him a while to work out why his wife found it so funny.

[t--m--i.livejournal.com]

Clearly things are going great for you right now if that's all you're worrying about? Or is this hoovering behind the wardrobe?

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Things are generally pretty good, thanks! But yes, I do have a number of fairly intense deadlines, against which activity must be displaced.

[almostalady.livejournal.com]

I sometimes think that if I stopped swearing I'd have nothing left to say at all.

One very dear friend left me with a particular gem recently: "arseburgers". I have found this enormously useful - in fact, I'm not sure could deal with our work IT system without it.

I did promise some gratuituous swearing in your quiz but now it comes down to it I'm feeling a bit self conscious about the whole thing. So it's the path of greater valour for me, for once.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Burgarsers!

[mizzykitty.livejournal.com]

These days I think most people who swear don't really do it for any real reason. It's just exclamations that pepper their speech. And as such, it often doesn't make any sense. I know I swear a lot, but I would never swear *at* someone, two things which are very different. So which is it you're concerned about, general swearing (which doesn't make sense, but who cares) or swearing at people (in which case, coming up with more creative swears is an applaudable pursuit!)

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Mm, that is an important distinction. I'm talking about both really, because I'm most concerned with what I hear in it myself. But I can certainly see that other people might consider the two areas quite differently.

[almostalady.livejournal.com]

And on an unrelated note, I have really enjoyed both this post and the subsequent comment chain. Hurrah!

[secondhand-rick.livejournal.com]

generating invective via terms associated with religious belief makes no sense if you're a believer yourself

I'm not sure I follow you here. If you are a believer, then surely that invests religious-based swearing with a power any other words lack? And that's the point of swearing, isn't it, to use words of power? Both 'swear' and 'oath' both have double meanings, and words of power are appropriate to both.

[secondhand-rick.livejournal.com]

Oh, and also:

   Cock pocket!
   Spanner wank!
   Arse cockage!

and if we're going religious:

   Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ on a mother-fucking motorcycle!

Or, if you want to avoid 'proper' swearing, emulate Jennings and Derbyshire with:

   You repulsive specimen!

That does seem a little weak in this day and age though.

[floralaetifica.livejournal.com]

I agree in principle, but in practice I like swearing too much to give it up.

Though as anyone who pays attention will know, there are some words that I loathe and will not use if I can help it. Anything with a gender bias, for example - and while 'bitch' is the one that bugs me most, this extends right down to 'silly moo'.

I think your list probably still leaves you with 'shit', and other excreti...ary (I couldn't be bothered to stop and figure out how to spell it) type words, as it's only natural that we should revile said substances.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

your list probably still leaves you with

Excluded under "Likewise normal bodily functions and waste products", I think.

I didn't quite understand undyingking's reasoning there - sure, the act of excreting is functionally necessary, but as you say it's natural to judge the resulting waste products harshly. Practically the definition is that we can't use 'em and don't want 'em, so ideal for insults and general disapproval.

Personally I think "waste of flesh" is a functionally effective insult. Makes sense, to the point, and doesn't rely on religious or cultural allusion. Unfortunately this means I don't use it even in jest, so I haven't really gained anything.

[cuthbertcross.livejournal.com]

If in doubt, check with a 3 year old.

Popular swear-words include "D'oh!", "poo!" , "stinky" and "buttocks!"
with the occasional "BIG BUM!"
(which she got from a childrens book we found at the library recently called "Funnybones and the Pet Shop". Thanks, Janet and Allen Alhberg...)

So no religious or sexist overtones there.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Some of those unfairly malign bodily parts and functions which let's face it we would be in trouble without - I want to avoid that too. D'oh! is a pretty good multipurpose one though I guess.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

I disagree with your premises, as explained in this comment.

Swear words are selected because their actual meanings are taboo - whether that be for religious, sexual, or scatological reasons. Some synonyms manage to be sufficiently clinical or euphemistic to merely be vulgar, others are considered offensive.

There probably are some swears that aren't covered by the categories you list, but they will have taboo meanings on some other grounds. Neither swearing nor stand-up comedy is any good unless something about it is fundamentally unacceptable.

Current music: Mmm-kay (South Park soundtrack). On random. Really.

Step 1: Instead of 'ass' say 'buns', as in "kiss my buns" or "you're a buns-hole".

Step 2: Instead of 'shit' say 'poo', as in "bull-poo", "poo-head" and "this poo is cold".

Step 3: With 'bitch' drop the 't', 'cos 'bich' is Latin for generosity.

Step 4: Don't say 'fuck' any more, 'cos 'fuck' is the worst word that you can say, so just use the word 'mmm-kay'.

[onebyone.livejournal.com]

"So we shouldn't say 'fuck', no we shouldn't say 'fuck', fuck no"

[jackfirecat.livejournal.com]

Have you abandoned the second post about this? I was looking forward to it.

If so, Basingstoke!

(or as Liz Lemmon in 30Rock says, 'blurgh')

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Not abandoned, but as with so many Great Unwritten LJ Posts, I have't got to it yet. I should make a proper to-post list, and not post about anythng else until I've worked through them.