A new MRIW idea

[undyingking]

I was thinking about starting off a new series of posts relating to Mo's Rather Interesting World of Exploded Folk Etymologies. The idea is that it will reveal the true origins of popular words and phrases which we generally think we know where they come from, but are wrong.

Unlike MRIWFSORD, this will be more of an interactive thing. So for this first one, I want you to say in a comment what you think is the origin of the word "posh". No looking it up, just off the top of your head. Or if you know of a theory but also know or believe it to be wrong, then say that and you can look clever. Or indeed if you'd like to invent a theory now for entertainment purposes, go for it.

Comments

[secondhand-rick.livejournal.com]

Posh is an acronym for P*ss Off, Sh*t Head! - the theory being that the kind of people who say that kind of thing aren't.

[secondhand-rick.livejournal.com]

More boringly of course, there's that 'Port Out Starboard Home' thing, but I seem to recall that's undetermined.

[secondhand-rick.livejournal.com]

Paris 'Original Sin' Hilton? She's posh, isn't she?

[venta.livejournal.com]

I read somewhere that posh is a sufficiently old word that it almost certainly isn't acronym-based; the acronym craze is a reasonably recent disease.

[vicarage.livejournal.com]

I vaguely remember its something to do with fabric quality. Hats? Shoddy certainly is.

[venta.livejournal.com]

I am reasonably certain that the port-out-starboard-home idea on cabin cruisers is a total myth.

Have you read the Pedant's Revolt ? It also deals with things which you (for some values of you) believe to be right, but are wrong. It might even mention posh, I can't remember.

[hatmandu.livejournal.com]

Posh is of course from the Yiddish poscha, being itself an acronym for 'port out starboard coming home already'.

[gbsteve.livejournal.com]

To posh comes from the Old Dutch voss which meant to wash. Hence posh people are those who have had a wash.

[al-fruitbat.livejournal.com]

Port Out, Starboard Home.

Theoretically since when on an ocean liner to/from somewhere, those cabins got sun.

[cleanskies.livejournal.com]

Posh is a contraction of "Pish Tosh", obviously. I'm sure there's a very obvious way it came into use but it escapes me right now.

[celestialweasel.livejournal.com]

Penguins Often Scoff Herring

[floralaetifica.livejournal.com]

They claim it's from "port-out-starboard-home" on the transatlantic journey: but they also claim that's a total myth. It's one of those things that appears in every myth-debunking book that people give as Christmas presents when they're out of ideas.

[hatmandu.livejournal.com]

Hm, you've just give me an idea: The Little Miscellany of Christmas Books, or How to Get Back at Unimaginative Giftgivers...

[hatmandu.livejournal.com]

Y'know, I might just pitch this to a publisher...

[hatmandu.livejournal.com]

..and now I have. Er, sorry, I appear to be talking to myself.

Posh is, of course, from the Russian pozh, meaning a type of cabbage soup so refined in flavour (ie almost no cabbage) that only the richest people could afford it (being chiefly composed of water). This, interestingly, is also how homeopathy started.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Good luck with that! I can think of several people who might benefit from a copy this Christmas.

[bluedevi.livejournal.com]

I'm assuming this is wrong because it's quite common, and that the other 12 commenters are saying the same thing, but: Port Out Starboard Home.

[bibliogirl.livejournal.com]

"Posh" is actually derived from the Old English pwyscha, meaning "clean-smelling" -- it was the word often used to describe the areas of towns where the richer people lived, which tended to have slightly fewer animals wandering the streets and not to be quite so thickly-coated with night soil. æchava was the corresponding word for the poorer quarters.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

I see this has already turned into Call My Bluff... now we just need a scoring system.

[bibliogirl.livejournal.com]

*attempts to look innocent*

[ar-gemlad.livejournal.com]

Dunno - but I'll be able to tell you all about blue moons if you want! (I'm doing a talk at work soon... Why do I volunteer?!)

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Maybe you should start a Gemma's Rather Interesting World of Debunked Celestial Phenomena series?

(I admit I thought it was just the second full moon in a month, until you linked to that article recently.)

[verlaine.livejournal.com]

I too knew the "Port Out, Starboard Home" story, and understood it to be mythical.

How about the origins of "OK"? I'm getting vague memories of it apocryphally standing for a US politician called "Old Kinderhook", or something.

[celestialweasel.livejournal.com]

Now, if Mo were Raymond Chen (of oldnewthing fame), he could be telling us off for jumping the gun.
I though Oll Korrect i.e. all correct.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

* scratches out half-formed plans for next week's installment *

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Not entirely apocryphally -- but Wait And See, as they say.

[mrlloyd.livejournal.com]

[Avoids looking at all the above comments to say with the total confidence of a man who is ignoring the 'things we all think we know' part of the idea to say]

Port Out Starboard Home, referring to the cabins you wanted for Atlantic crossings on cruise liners. The acronym would be written on your (more expensive) ticket.

I will now read the other comments and wince.

[mrlloyd.livejournal.com]

OK, wincing.

I think the dutch word for wash is was by the way (pronounced a bit like vase only with no e on the end and a w on the front - I'm not good at this...)

[thecesspit.livejournal.com]

It makes sense if you want the sun in your cabin all day, at least.

I had to think about why I'd want a 'POSH' ticket.

Course, Americans would've want a SOPH ticket. So if this was the right etymology, surely things would be 'soph' over here. Like trousers aren't your pants.

[mrlloyd.livejournal.com]

Well perhaps, but with the USA being an allegedly classless society perhaps a euphamism for 'upper class' wasn't something they were likely to come up with.

[celestialweasel.livejournal.com]

I have a future column for you - hello.
Not for the first or last time Wikipedia seems to have missed the point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello
Compare and contrast with http://www2.cs.uh.edu/~klong/papers/hello.txt

My reading is that 'hello' was promulgated by Edison, although some variants (hullo, halloo ?) did exist before, but as relatively uncommon words, and that hello (hallo, hullo, halloo, whatever) were not common greetings before.

I would welcome your thoughts.

[undyingking.livejournal.com]

Interesting! I'll have a hunt and see if any further evidence about it is floating around the noosphere.